Tuesday, 10 January 2012


I'm absolutely disgusted at the lack of interest shown by tennis traders in the matches on Betdaq today. I never expected a mass migration or for hundreds of thousands to be matched in-play but what I see before me as I write is worse than I could ever have imagined - it's truly pathetic.

Of the 7 games that kicked off at midnight, only one of them had any tradeable amounts of money at all being circulated. That was Mannarino v Anderson but even then, the gaps between prices were huge and it was barely worth getting involved. When a Premier WTA event match involving Caroline Wozniacki and a top 20 player who beat her in the same tournament last year (Cibulkova), has only a grand matched pre-off and almost zero liquidity during play, you realise just how monumental the chasm is. It's currently 5-5 in set 1 and only 2k has been matched. Betunfair would have seen hundreds of thousands matched on that game, just as the bigger games on last night had.

Where are all the big players? Some big amounts have come into the market at sub 1.2 near the end of the Anderson game but still only 11k has been matched overall as Mannarino serves for the match. They would normally be setting the market (and some of the games looked promising with the amounts available pre-match) but as soon as the matches were turned in-play, all the money disappeared. This was not the case back in July and August following the introduction of the super premium charge. Every televised game had decent liquidity and you could at least be certain you'd get matched most of the time. But if the big fish can't be bothered (and let's face it, they are the ones most affected and should be making the biggest effort to put prices up today) then we may as well all just pull down our pants, bend over and beg Betunfair to continue buggering us.

The whole opportunity has ended up as a joke and Betunfair must be pissing themselves. I feel like an idiot for even attempting to drum up interest. Why did I bother when Betdaq themselves don't appear to have done anything whatsoever to incentivise or even give people a nudge in their direction specifically during this down-time? Apathy will always be the biggest killer of change and I honestly feel that most people just don't care. If you at least tried and gave Betdaq a look today, give yourself a pat on the back. If you didn't even bother, then you should be ashamed and you now have no right to ever moan about the premium charge or any of Betunfairs many other misdemeanours ever again.

Our only hope now is that Ladbrokes get into bed with The Daq - cos that now appears the only way we'll ever be able to stop getting screwed by Betunfair.

Off-Court Beauty: just to cheer me up, here's Russia's world number 125 Anastasia Pivovarova:


  1. I feel your pain. I spent an hour trying to trade the markets and hoped that other's would to. Alas it wasn't to be. We need a competitor to Betfair to keep driving up service levels and Betdaq is the most likely candidate, but without without liquidity they can't compete. I'll be making an effort to trade there more often and hope that other's will too.

  2. I feel your pain buddy!

    I think we have to assume that Betdaq have very little interest in growth and the migration idea is a non starter.

    I also doubt the Ladbrokes tie up will bring any long term benefit to the exchange...its just not in their interest imo

  3. Good to know I wasn't the only one out there tonight guys!

  4. I believe that most of the swedish traders are waiting for the possibility to trade with swedish crona. You never know how long euros exist.

  5. I was beginning to think you were getting paid by BetDaq with all the promotion you emanating from your blog. I dusted down the betdaq account and had a look at several markets just for a little "fun" yesterday.
    Had a pretty good day gambling on the dogs however from a trading perspective just couldn't get matched on several occasions. Am having the day off today to go racing and interact with people, imagine that!!!! Keep up the great blog Signor Sultan

  6. Without the crossmatching-bots from Betfair there is no chance of a proper filled market on Betdaq.

  7. It's nothing unusual that in Betdaq markets everything goes quiet after 22:00 (GMT) because all the traders, punters go to sleep.

    We'll just have to wait for the Australian Open because then people will trade at night and sleep in the morning. I know for sure that i will do that during this tournament.

    btw, trading tennis markets on Betdaq since the Betfair strike in July and still not bitching about the low liquidity in some tournaments. Just offer your price for 2-5 ticks lower/higher than Betfairs odds and you'll be fine.

  8. I lost some hours in night searching ANYTHING to trade, but in betdaq it was so dead market that i was surprised

    traders suck and love bf with their charges and downtimes and unexpected issues.

    some super matches to trade i lost… like wozniacki – cibulkova with many rollercoasters, bf was down and betdaq was matched even live… 900 GBP….. lol

  9. Isn't the issue that a lot the liquidity on Betunfair comes for traditional bookies? So until the traditional bookies start having liquidity arrangements with Betdaq in the same way that they do with Betunfair. Betdaq will always have less liquidity.

  10. i was there too. i had some bets on mannarino, and wozniacki matches but it was very frustating not to be able to hedge because of the big gaps. :( the only hope is that betfair crashes during AO for a couple of days and at least half of the traders moves to betdaq, but that will never happen.

  11. Great comments guys and well done for giving Betdaq a look at least. I did actually manage to make some money, as I laid Cibulkova when she was 2-0 up in set 3 - she lost of course, so it as worth the wait in the end!

    RobinHood, great that you are trading on Betdaq for a while. Can I ask, what is liquidity like on tournaments during the afternoon/evening GMT?

  12. it must be something with huge liquidity comming from BOOKIES and serious huge 1-tick live traders, often sitting next to courts etc.

    all rest, even big traders, never will create same liquidity as betfair has thanks to bookies and live-1-tick huge traders.

  13. Here's a little story about my trading in Betdaq. 1st week after BF (Betfair) introduced the new PC, BD markets were full with money. After that week markets were suddenly empty again, but then it started to grow again - slowly but steady improvements. I think late in the August someone was working on a bot (don't know if it was a courtsider or just a bot copying BF odds) and this attracted more traders/punters.
    Then came US Open and as soon there was only 1 match at the same time the liquidity improved rapidly - if i remember correctly in semis or even QF on a womens match someone was playing around with stakes over 500k Euros. Besides him there were also courtsiders and regular traders who added their money to the market. This high liquidity continued till the end of 2011. Although after US Open the markets looked dry i was able to get matched. I don't care for horse racing or football markets, but tennis was that sport that improved quite rapidly over at Betdaq.

    brotip: if there isn't any money in the market that doesn't mean you won't get matched - offer your money at a good price and some bot/bots will instantly take your offer.

    For example, lets take a look at the last tournament in St.Petersburg. Matches started in a reasonable time 12:00 (GMT +2), Bet365 offered video feed with a bad quality, but Betdaq didnt put the "TV" at the end of market name (markets with TV usually have high liquidity). I'm no expert but the tournament was crap, but i had no problem trading those markets. Yes, it was hard to get matched at the exact odds as Betfair, but the markets were tradeable.

    Probably people don't know what to do when they see an empty ladder, because in Betfair you have everything in front of you. Be a market maker (lower commision) not a market taker and you'll be fine.

    I hope that this somehow explained how i saw the liquidity in Betdaq last year.

  14. Thanks Robin Hood, that's very interesting. I hope you won't mind if I use your comment for my next post? Might educate a few people and I will certainly give it a go and try making the market more.

  15. No problem, use it for your blog posts.

    If this weeks tournaments really are lacking liquidity then it's only because of time zone differences. And Betfair knows it that's why they don't give a shit about tennis traders missing markets for 1 night.

  16. FT traders dont care about timezones, in january i just sleep as australian do, during night i feel like it would be a day here in EU. ;)

  17. Begs the question of how much money in the Betfair markets actually belong to traders ? Betfair bots continually crossmatch and create virtual liquidity and the large bookies are operating on Betfair. How much small players like us miserable traders contribute to the Betfair markets is becoming evident.

  18. also worth noting Betfair was down from midnight UK time - till 10am that night. No markets were traded on Tennis. What this tells you is that Betdaq offer a cross matching Bot with BF prices. I was on BD trading on Tuesday night and can confirm the liquidity was poor. Maroon Heaven


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